SOUND PROJECTIONS
AN ONLINE QUARTERLY MUSIC MAGAZINE
EDITOR: KOFI NATAMBU
SPRING, 2018
VOLUME FIVE NUMBER THREE
Featuring the Musics and Aesthetic Visions of:
DOROTHY ASHBY
(April 21-27)
MILFORD GRAVES
(April 28-May 4)
LOUIS JORDAN
(May 5-11)
JOSEPH JARMAN
(May 12-18)
OTIS BLACKWELL
{May 19-25)
MARION BROWN
(May 26-June 1)
THE ROOTS
(June 2-8)
CHARLIE PATTON
(JUNE 9-15)
STEFON HARRIS
(JUNE 16–22)
MEMPHIS MINNIE
(June 23-29)
HAROLD LAND
(June 30-July 6)
WILLIE DIXON
(July 7--13)
Milford Graves was into his own version of World Music long before there was the term. His individualistic approach to the rudiments of drumming and its rhythmic pulses were light years ahead of most musicians. Yet he found musical colleagues and an audience for his forays into the deep end of free jazz.
A native New Yorker, and exposed to Latin rhythms, he started out as a child on congas, then became a teenage timbales player in a Latin band from 1959 through the early ‘60’s, Graves switched to a trap set after seeing Elvin Jones with Coltrane. From 1964 he was an essential member of the New Thing movement in New York City, and backing up Amiri Baraka's Harlem poetry readings.
Graves became a devout student of percussion on an international level, and went on to study not only its African roots and development, but expanded his studies on the Indian tablas with acknowledged master Wasantha Singh.
He had quite an extensive resume in the 1960’s playing with Hugh Masakela and Miriam Makeba, Giuseppi Logan, was a member of the Jazz Composers’ Orchestra Association, and collaborated with avante-garde pianist Paul Bley.
Graves recorded with pianist Don Pullen in 1966,(Graves Pullen Duo) and worked recurrently with Albert Ayler in 1967 and 1968, performing at the 1967 Newport Festival. He went on to form a duo with drummer Andrew Cyrille, and they also did drumming seminars with Rashied Ali.
By the 1973 Graves moved into education and taught at Bennington College. He recorded “Meditation Among Us,” in 1977, representing his foray into Japanese infused free jazz. He continued to perform and tour into the ‘80’s where he participated in percussion ensembles with such luminary drummers as Kenny Clarke, Don Moye, Philly Joe Jones, and of course Andrew Cyrille.
By the turn of the new century, Graves was a member of the New York Arts Quartet, went on to record and perform with sax man David Murray, and started an association with alto player John Zorn doing sessions for Zorn’s Tzadik label as: “Grand Unification,” (1998) and “Stories,” (2000) which is an aural journey into a personalized percussion performance. Highly recommended! He collaborated with Zorn in 2004 for “50th Birthday Celebration, Live.”
Milford Graves a drumming visionary who is in tune with the universal pulse of life, and has provided a glimpse into our potential.
Source: James Nadal
https://www.thewire.co.uk/issues/409
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/milford-graves-mn0000898550/biography
Milford Graves
(b August 20, 1941)
Artist Biography by Ron Wynn
Milford Graves
has been among the flashiest drummers in the free mode, known for
skillful inclusion of Asian and African rhythmic ingredients into his
solos. He studied Indian music extensively, including learning the tabla
from Wasantha Singh. He has unfortunately not recorded much, especially
on American labels. Graves played congas as a child, then switched to trap drums at 17 before his tabla studies with Singh. During the '60s, Graves worked with Giuseppi Logan and the New York Art Quartet. He recorded on ESP in the mid-'60s with Logan, and was an original member of the Jazz Composers' Orchestra Association. Graves also played with Hugh Masekela and Miriam Makeba in the early '60s. His appearance in the Bill Dixon-sponsored concert series the October Revolution in Jazz helped introduce Graves to a wider audience. He did two albums of duets with pianist Don Pullen at Yale in 1966. Graves worked regularly with Albert Ayler in 1967 and 1968, performing at the 1967 Newport Festival. He also played with Hugh Glover and worked in a duo with Andrew Cyrille. During the '70s, Graves participated in a series of mid-'70s concerts called Dialogue of the Drums with Cyrille and Rashied Ali, including several shows in black neighborhoods. Graves taught at Bennington College alongside Bill Dixon in the '70s, and toured Europe and Japan. During the '80s, he played in percussion ensembles with Cyrille, Kenny Clarke, and Don Moye. Philly Joe Jones later replaced Clarke. The late '90s found Graves enjoying a revival, collaborating with younger musicians, including John Zorn, and recording albums for his Tzadik label. In 2000, the New York Art Quartet's first recording in decades, 35th Reunion, was released by DIW.
Milford Graves
Milford Graves was into his own version of World Music long before there was the term. His individualistic approach to the rudiments of drumming and its rhythmic pulses were light years ahead of most musicians. Yet he found musical colleagues and an audience for his forays into the deep end of free jazz.
A native New Yorker, and exposed to Latin rhythms, he started out as a child on congas, then became a teenage timbales player in a Latin band from 1959 through the early ‘60’s, Graves switched to a trap set after seeing Elvin Jones with Coltrane. From 1964 he was an essential member of the New Thing movement in New York City, and backing up Amiri Baraka's Harlem poetry readings.
Graves became a devout student of percussion on an international level, and went on to study not only its African roots and development, but expanded his studies on the Indian tablas with acknowledged master Wasantha Singh.
He had quite an extensive resume in the 1960’s playing with Hugh Masakela and Miriam Makeba, Giuseppi Logan, was a member of the Jazz Composers’ Orchestra Association, and collaborated with avante-garde pianist Paul Bley.
Graves recorded with pianist Don Pullen in 1966,(Graves Pullen Duo) and worked recurrently with Albert Ayler in 1967 and 1968, performing at the 1967 Newport Festival. He went on to form a duo with drummer Andrew Cyrille, and they also did drumming seminars with Rashied Ali.
By the 1973 Graves moved into education and taught at Bennington College. He recorded “Meditation Among Us,” in 1977, representing his foray into Japanese infused free jazz. He continued to perform and tour into the ‘80’s where he participated in percussion ensembles with such luminary drummers as Kenny Clarke, Don Moye, Philly Joe Jones, and of course Andrew Cyrille.
By the turn of the new century, Graves was a member of the New York Arts Quartet, went on to record and perform with sax man David Murray, and started an association with alto player John Zorn doing sessions for Zorn’s Tzadik label as: “Grand Unification,” (1998) and “Stories,” (2000) which is an aural journey into a personalized percussion performance. Highly recommended! He collaborated with Zorn in 2004 for “50th Birthday Celebration, Live.”
Milford Graves a drumming visionary who is in tune with the universal pulse of life, and has provided a glimpse into our potential.
Source: James Nadal
https://www.thewire.co.uk/issues/409
Issue 409
March 2018
Inside this issue:
Milford Graves: The percussionist, herbalist and educator has cut a titanic figure in free music for almost 60 years. By Alan Licht.
Julian Cowley on Graves’s essential recordings
Milford Graves: The percussionist, herbalist and educator has cut a titanic figure in free music for almost 60 years. By Alan Licht.
Julian Cowley on Graves’s essential recordings
http://www.furious.com/perfect/milfordgraves.html
https://bombmagazine.org/articles/milford-graves/
When I stepped into the Artist’s Institute at Hunter College in Manhattan this past fall, I didn’t know what to expect. Milford Graves was premiering a new work titled Beyond Polymath. I’ve studied music with Graves since 2015, seen him play drums with various musicians, and attended gatherings at his home in Queens. At these informal meetings he draws connections between his work in biology, martial arts, music, and acupuncture, all while telling stories of his experiences as a drummer in the 1960s. Beyond Polymath, however, was unique in that it was his first work of sculpture. The installation was a three-dimensional expression of Graves’s “biological music” concept. The density of this sculpture struck me—its medical and cultural symbols intertwined with brightly colored veins, their shapes and lines creating a sense of movement between static objects. A human skeleton was connected to four separate computer monitors, each displaying various expressions of the human heartbeat. The effect was simultaneously ancient and futuristic.
Graves has dedicated his life to understanding how people vibrate, creating works that resonate within us. This inquiry has led him to pursuits beyond any single discipline and to settle into a number of diverse communities. Some know him as a musician, while others regard him as a martial arts instructor or herbalist, but he seamlessly combines all of these interests. Rather than work within any specific idiom, Graves mines the creative process to engineer new works out of the components common to each subject.
A few days after his lecture/recital at the Artist’s Institute, we met at his home in Queens, where I found him deliberating on the gallbladder and what sort of medical advice to give a friend in need.
January 3, 2018
The new film Milford Graves Full Mantis is as much a visual poem as it is a documentary.
The film—which examines not just the career, but also the teachings of drummer/percussionist Milford Graves—will have its world premiere at this year’s International Film Festival in Rotterdam, The Netherlands, which runs from Jan. 24 to Feb. 4. The movie will be screened as part of “Pan-African Cinema Today,” a program that includes short- and feature-length films, lectures, a virtual-reality installation and music.
Jake Meginsky, who co-directed the film with Neil Young, was living in Springfield, a quick drive to the University of Massachusetts-Amherst back in 2004. And as the Northeast plays host to a bevy of experimental improvisers, Meginsky was able to catch a Graves performance at the school.
Something about the show obviously reached Meginsky’s core.
About a year later, he drove up to Bennington College to ask the percussionist if he’d be able to take on a student. Graves, who worked at the Vermont school for 39 years, said yes, and Meginsky landed a gig up there to be closer to his mentor. The pair also worked a bit in South Jamaica, Queens, where Graves is based and first taught his brand of martial arts, Yara.
“By 2004, I was recording him telling certain stories from [his past] or what was going on with the recording he was doing,” said Meginsky, who used Graves’ home and extensive gardens in Queens as the film’s setting. “This movie … comes out of 14 years of working with Milford directly as a student. It’s a personal project.”
Full Mantis is fully focused on Graves’ voice. The drummer’s perceptions of art and living blend with impressionistic visual turns: glacial camera movements, stolen moments in the gardens and archival footage. Unlike a slew of recent music docs, though, Meginsky and Young’s film eschews talking-head specialists. Meginsky said that for him, as a viewer, when those arbiters of culture show up in a film, it’s not uncommon for him to zone out.
Graves’ career reaches back to the 1960s, when he began recording with free-jazz luminaries like Albert Ayler, Giuseppi Logan and Sonny Sharrock. The percussionist, who said he was waiting for someone to make a movie about his work, recalls garnering a bit of attention pretty early on, though.
“I was the new kid on the block, you know? Word got around: ‘You have to go see Milford Graves,’” the drummer said on New Year’s day. “People I had respect for … these guys were coming over to me and giving me high praise. They made me realize that maybe I had something.”
In a March 19, 1970, feature on drummers, DownBeat writer Jane Welch described Graves as “a serious man and a serious musician.” She wrote: “His way of life is on a high ethical plane and his playing reflects this. He is a ‘cultural nationalist’ who firmly believes that an artist can take all the necessary things from the existing environment and shape them creatively to suit his own needs.”
Graves is still at work, using the same perspective. And to the filmmaker, Full Mantis is a primary document, culled from more than a decade of knowing Graves, exploring his teachings and listening to discussions of the percussionist’s ideas and the “ways he conceptualizes the instrument and his creative process, in general.”
Meginsky called some of the material used in the film “hardcore archival” and said the movie’s name comes from Graves’ martial arts discipline.
“Milford was training his peers in his backyard in South Jamaica Queens—boxing and kung fu,” the director said, going on to detail a story of some folks being turned away from teachers in Chinatown because of their race. Graves, though, came to the conclusion that most martial arts masters study directly from nature. “So, he ordered a bunch of praying mantis eggs, hatched them in the garden and studied from the praying mantis.”
It’s that kind of intuition that spurs Graves’ discourse today. And over the course of the 90-minute film, viewers get to hear previously unreleased electronic music and see animation by Graves, as well as Super 8 footage of the drummer’s first tour of Japan and 16-mm footage of a tour in Belgium.
For more info on the film, visit its Kickstarter page. And for info on International Film Festival’s “Pan-African Cinema Today,” visit the festival website. DB
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/arts/music/milford-graves-jazz-full-mantis.html
Professor Milford Graves
Interview by Jason Gross
If somehow we forgot about the fact that he helped lead a musical revolution in jazz in the '60's (where he led his own ensembles and worked with Albert Ayler, Paul Bley, Don Pullen and many others), Professor Milford Graves still would be greatly admired for his steady, long-time dedication to the field of music therapy. A tenured teacher at Bennington College for over a quarter of a century, he has also done extenstive work as an acupunturist, herbalist and leader of the non-profit organization the International Center for Medicinal an Scientific Research. His latest release, Grand Unification on Tzadik, serves as something of an audio document of some of his work in this field.
PSF: What was your initial interest in this field even before you began any studies? I came up with it. My tradition always dealt with music and healing but it wasn't done in the academic sense. It was all part of tradition, dealing with a lot of traditional drumming as related to the various African cultures. It's always been an inclusion.
PSF: How did that come together to form the basis of your work?
It's basically from people making comments. People would say how they felt after I performed. Then I developed a greater consciousness of how to make some kind of methodology. When I'd play in various dancehalls in my community (Jamaica, Queens), people would attend concerts and they would have various kinds of ills. They would say that they felt entirely different after the performance, whether I was doing it with an ensemble or as a soloist. I related to peoples' physiological as well as their psychological discomfort.
So I related what people told me to what I studied in the Western scientific arena- basic music therapy and its psychological and physiological effects as done within the scientific arena in this country. As I was further investigating, I found that it was in direct line with my own personal experiences. So I would update things and make things fit into what I was doing. Then I would do my own scientific investigation, such as using the physiograph, which has been used by other people in the music therapy field.
PSF: What is that exactly?
It's a piece of medical equipment that measures heart rate, respirations, skin response, blood pressure. At Bennington College, we would have people connected to the machine and I would perform various musics and observe the results. I would also take samples of blood and urine and see if I notice any kind of change, before and after.
PSF: What have you found out with different ailments and responses in your work and research?
Some of the things are very standard, like the dynamics of loud and soft. Sudden explosive loud sounds would cause a very strong skin galvanic response- it would be very stresssful on the system.
At the college, we had people who had cardiac irregularities or arrhythmias. They were diagonised as non-organic arrhythmias- people couldn't really get any help with using medication or trying to change their lifestyles. So I would co-ordinate some music that would be considering 'free jazz,' entirely spontaneous and improvised. Some of it was done live but some of it was pre-recorded. We would play these things and we found that with one particular person, his heart rhythm started to synchronize with what we had performed on the tape. Then we played live and we steadied the rhythm into a regular heart rhythm and his own heartbeat stopped being arrhythmic and then it co-ordinated with us. That was very interesting. Some people don't believe this but I have all the documents about it- electrocardiograms and a tape with one track having our pre-recorded music and on the other track we actually had this person's heart rhythm and you could see how it synch's right in.
PSF: You said that part of your work was derived from Western studies in music therapy. Where do you think this is lacking and where do you think they should be concentrating their studies?
I think what has to be done is very similar to the concept of acupuncture energetics. It's very similar to homeopathatic medicine where you have to pay more attention to the individual.
PSF: You mean a more holistic approach?
Definitely. It calls for a greater sensitivity on the part of the music therapist. That's not just knowing 'music'- you have to have a greater understanding of medical sciences and disease in general. What it calls for is that the music has to be developed with a greater sense of flexibility. Maybe things are changing but as far as some of the literature is concerned that I've seen, when you concentrate only on a certain type of music, that defeats the purpose.
PSF: What do you have in mind?
If you look in a lot of medical therapy books, they have a tendancy to lean specifically and ONLY towards Western classical music. With jazz, a lot of people would say that it has a lot of negative things to say and that it's actually very dangerous to use. (laughs) Especially drums and saxophones. I think those kinds of things have to change if the 'conventional' sense of Western medical therapy is going to make any kind of improvement.
PSF: What if you were dealing with a patient that didn't feel comfortable with jazz?
What I would do is try something else. First of all, I do consider myself a musician. You have to look at some of the things that were done in 'free jazz' ('free' because of the great amount of expression that's dealt with in that music), dealing with music in general and not limiting yourself.
PSF: Do you also involve patients in the process of creating music?
Oh yes. You have to type out the person and see what they're about. You could do it the standard ways and see how people listen to music and what kind of music they like and don't like. You could use standard forms but I think the best way is through pulsology, as it's done in traditional Unani techniques of pulse reading. You got to find everybody's rhythm and that's done through palpating the artery or you could take a stethoscope and listen to their rhythm over a particular period of time. You can't just put the stethascope on for a few seconds, you have to stay there if it takes five minutes. You put the person in a comfortable position and you have to see what their basic rhythm is about.
PSF: Most doctors will listen for fifteen seconds, times it by four and then have the pulse rate.
That's no good- you can't do that. Once you get versed in pulse reading, then you can see the value. It's important to listen because you hear the actual TONE of the heart beats. Once you know the actual frequency of the individual beat, the actual vibration and tone quality of each beat, you can figure out what is the particular internal melody of that person. Once you create that melodic line that's internal in the person, you can figure out what the inner rhythm is about. They may think they're like something on the outside but once you get the actual rhythm (I base a lot of it off cardiac rhythm, that's the basic pulsation of how the blood is moving through the body), that's how I internalize rhythm. There's been certain studies on the actual frequency of the first heart sound, the S1, that have been done on people with myocardial infarctions and people in prison that were about to be electrocuted. They took the heart frequency just before that, so there were some very interesting things taking place.
PSF: If a patient gets involved in your therapy program and finds that it's helping them, how do you follow-up with them?
I've been dealing with this over a long period of time, especially with people that are close to me such as students and people that are apprenticing. Something's been in the works and it's about to manifest on a much greater level, public-wise. People will get cassette recordings done by musicians and also they would be participating, especially from a vocal point. These people would, instead of taking medications, put this tape on at various times. They will have their own personal cassette recordings to listen to. It would be all individualized. All of the equipment for this will be available soon, maybe the next few months. It'll be done under the organziation that I'm the director of- the Center for Medicinal and Scientific Studies.
PSF: Where are you getting support for this?
Private donations.
PSF: Does the medical community seem supportive of this?
Yes. I do have a doctor in Boston, who's an ex-student, who got funding. They're doing it on the children where they're going to be using sound in the Emergency Room. This is a lot of vocal work.
PSF: Do you think the medical community needs to understand this work more?
Definitely so.
PSF: With the concerts that you do, do you think about how the music is going to be projected towards the audience, as opposed to dealing with individuals as patients?
I always tell musicians, whenever you perform for a large body of people, you must hear the real grand fundamental tone that comes from the people. You have to arrive there and go into a nice little area where you plant yourself and you try to hear that big sound, that harmony that everybody's making- the way they're talking, the laughter. I get the fundamental tone of all of that. Once you get that tone, all the things are going to fall into place because all of the people are just the harmonics.
PSF: What do you with that information then?
What I do is I try to internalize that sound, and say 'what does that feel like to me.' If I feel it's a positive sound, then I say 'this thing could take me someplace else.' I can give them a much greater whatever-they-need if I do this or I do that. If I feel hurt from there, what I do is change that around. The thing is this- somebody would say 'everybody's not going to respond to this.' But if you can get a large segment of people in there just to be thinking very positive, then the person next to them is going to feel that! You try to get harmony in there. People always want to be in a surrounding where they feel people are positive. If you people are smiling, feeling great comfort, not intimidated, they can relax and feel no stress. So everybody helps each other out.
But you as an artist... What I'm talking about is an artist has to be really together. Spirit-wise, body-wise, mind-wise. You have to be in the best condiiton that you can be in. Or else you're no good to anybody. It's like a medical doctor telling you 'I can take care of your cold' and he's sneezing and coughing all over the place.
PSF: But what about someone like Charlie Parker? He definitely wasn't together a lot of the time that he did his recordings.
I just came back from Miami- I was at the public schools down there, trying to introduce the people to jazz. I said 'once I evolved myself to a certain kind of level, Charlie Parker was not the answer.' That's a bold statement to make around a lot of people who love Charlie Parker. I've had this problem before. Musicians say 'wow, Parker was a great musician.' I say 'I didn't say anything about his musicianship.' He was a great horn player. But what he was expressing was something else. Parker was expressing something a lot of times off the influence of drugs. He wasn't getting to that part of ourselves that was going to take us on a level that was going to get us to open up without having to rely on pain and depressants and everything else.
What I feel through Charlie Parker's music is a need from somebody who wants to get out of what they're into. That's a way to evolve 'I've got this horn in my mouth and I'm doing what I want to do.' Also, with Billie Holiday. Once you internalize yourself, it's because people today see the standards presented for us on TV. Kids go out and do some really ridiculous things. If we look at people around us, they're accepting things because they think that's the normal thing to do. So I want to say to these people 'wake up!' So, no I don't want to do what Charlie Parker did. He's not taking me to that level that I know I'm supposed to go. Just talking with the guys, I could say 'yeah Charlie sounds nice.' But you got to understand where Charlie Parker was coming from. He had a beautiful tone for what he wanted to express. But we want to go beyond that, to the next step.
In the late sixties, I was playing up in Harlem. There was an elderly woman there who used to be very close with Charlie Parker. She was in the audience and my group was playing so-called 'free form jazz.' We REALLY got very free! This woman calls us over and said 'the music that Charlie Parker used to describe what he wanted to play, you guys just played it! From his description, that's what he was talking about!' That really hit me. I knew he really wanted to do something like that. But I will accept what Charlie Parker did because that was his EXPERIENCE.
PSF: You were talking before about how you try to project certain feelings to an audience when you play. What have you seen from their reactions with this?
People come over to me after. They don't just tell me 'wow, you're a great musician.' Which is great- because I know that they didn't get it if they tell me that. But when they tell me 'I came in here and I was all uptight and I didn't even feel like coming to this concert, now I'm so glad I came here. You made me feel the way I'm supposed to feel.' They'd be smiling. You could see them open up and sparkle. That's great.
In Florida, one of the women there where I lectured at the schools said 'your particular lectures were the best.' She looked at these high school kids that she knew and she said 'you got them smiling when they never smiled.' All the kids were laughing and they were doing stuff that they didn't even know they could do. It brought out that kind of greater imagination.
The ultimate thing that I'm trying to do, and a lot of people don't like the music because it deals with vibrations and it's got the stimulators, is more people thinking in a more creative way for a kind of greater imagination. Then you have a greater amount of people trying to solve all these problems that we have on the planet. I'm not trying to clone people. When I hear that I've gotten people to be more serious about what they're doing, that means that I've helped them tap their own creativity and their own spirit and give them some kind of hope. When people tell me that, then I know that's what's supposed to be done. Everybody has something that can make that whole total thing happen. The thing that can make us as a whole people- everybody's got a part of the whole.See the other Music Therapy articles
https://bombmagazine.org/articles/milford-graves/
Milford Graves, Beyond Polymath (detail), 2017, mixed-media installation. Courtesy of the Artist’s Institute
When I stepped into the Artist’s Institute at Hunter College in Manhattan this past fall, I didn’t know what to expect. Milford Graves was premiering a new work titled Beyond Polymath. I’ve studied music with Graves since 2015, seen him play drums with various musicians, and attended gatherings at his home in Queens. At these informal meetings he draws connections between his work in biology, martial arts, music, and acupuncture, all while telling stories of his experiences as a drummer in the 1960s. Beyond Polymath, however, was unique in that it was his first work of sculpture. The installation was a three-dimensional expression of Graves’s “biological music” concept. The density of this sculpture struck me—its medical and cultural symbols intertwined with brightly colored veins, their shapes and lines creating a sense of movement between static objects. A human skeleton was connected to four separate computer monitors, each displaying various expressions of the human heartbeat. The effect was simultaneously ancient and futuristic.
Graves has dedicated his life to understanding how people vibrate, creating works that resonate within us. This inquiry has led him to pursuits beyond any single discipline and to settle into a number of diverse communities. Some know him as a musician, while others regard him as a martial arts instructor or herbalist, but he seamlessly combines all of these interests. Rather than work within any specific idiom, Graves mines the creative process to engineer new works out of the components common to each subject.
A few days after his lecture/recital at the Artist’s Institute, we met at his home in Queens, where I found him deliberating on the gallbladder and what sort of medical advice to give a friend in need.
—Aakash Mittal
Milford Graves If
not in terrible pain, he probably has a little time to rectify his
health situation. Most people feel some pain and go right in, taking
hard pharmaceuticals or getting cut up. Then other problems settle in.
Aakash Mittal There’s no going back once they cut an organ out.
MG Once they do that, there ain’t no regeneration.
AM: Even an easy surgery is a risk, so why put your body through that if you don’t have to?
MGAndy Warhol and Tony Williams both had gallbladder surgery and suffered massive heart attacks. There’s a linkage between those two organs, man. This ain’t alternative medicine; it’s straight out of cardiopathy. There’s a small blood vessel connecting the gallbladder to the heart. I told my friend to make sure they monitor it.
AM: So you were suggesting he ask for a cardiologist?
MG: Doctors get uptight when you tell them what to do, but you have to bring things to their attention in a very peaceful, diplomatic way.
AM: Every time I come here I learn about a new connection between the heart and the rest of the world.
MG In traditional Chinese medicine they’ve been talking about this for ages. There’s the meridian clock. Each of us has two hours of maximum energy flow for the heart, between 11 AM and 1 PM. The gallbladder is just the opposite, between 11 PM and 1 AM. The ancient Chinese saw something going on, probably just from observation. They said the kidneys control the bones. How is that possible?
AM I don’t know.
MG Well, there’s a hormone in the kidney—erythropoietin. The blood goes through the kidneys, and they monitor it, excreting out what they don’t want but returning electrolytes and stuff back into the flow. But check this out: this ain’t no machine. It’s a human organ that can figure out the number of red blood cells you have! And when they’re too low it releases this hormone, which triggers the marrow to produce more. The ancients knew about this relationship, just not about erythropoietin. Now we learn its molecular structure and synthesize it, then put it in a pill or injection. But the bottom line is that you might not always have the scientific language, but the relationships are there. So you can’t sleep on this old stuff, man! You’ve got to go back centuries and ask what these ancients were talking about. They were so tuned in. They talked about their deities, and today we have church as big business. Turn on that TV and see them preachers dressed up. They’re entertainers, and people are dousing them with bucks! People are into their talk, feeling them high spirits, but in the old days they really felt forces inside. They were very open and had none of our machines. They paid attention to their own biology and let nature speak. When we get stuck, we should go back and ask what the heck they were talking about.
AM It’s easy to forget that people were able to exist for thousands of years without the machines we use today. So your study of the ancients deals with energy systems?
MG Their whole thought process, man!
AM Having known you for the last few years, one thing that really strikes me is that some people only know you as an herbalist, while others only know you as a martial artist or acupuncturist. They might not even know you play drums. Are you leading multiple lives?
MG People can be polymaths, knowing about this and that, but they might not be able to integrate all that. When I needed a title for my recent show at the Artist’s Institute at Hunter College, “Beyond Polymath” popped into my head—which, to me, means trying to see all this stuff as one happening, like the ToE (Theory of Everything) in physics. I’m dealing with the same things, though not, for example, light or gravity but with the sensory organs that detect them. I deal with the body, man! Not so much on the atomic or cosmological level but the anatomical level. With microscopes you can look all you want, but can you feel it?
AM Meaning inside your body?
MG Meaning how you react. We have excellent detectors that can observe particles colliding. With our machines we can observe. But what about Vodou in Haiti or further back than that, the Dahomey and Yoruba cultures? With possession you can see some incredible things—people crawling along then suddenly jumping up, doing unbelievable movements and chanting. All bubbled up through this apparatus of vocalization and drumming.
AM I was just in Haiti this past summer, hanging out with a Vodou drummer who showed me some rhythms. From a distance the rhythms seemed simple. I thought, I’m a musician and can learn this. But when it was my turn to play them I was blown away by the complexity of the time feel. Once I was able to play the rhythm, I was really struck by the trance-like effect and its deep symbolism. The drums themselves could only be made from the wood of a tree felled on a full moon. He explained that this wasn’t just music but something more. He was trying to vibrate on another level.
MG That’s it! It comes down to vibration, which is motion. As human beings, if there’s no motion, we’re dead! (laughter) You can call it oscillations or whatever.
AM I want to say intuition, but that word carries a lot of baggage. I wonder if it’s related to our gut neurons.
MGAnd this thing about machines replacing human biology is too far out. If you want to build a smarter machine, then you’ve got to feel the neuron. You’ve got to ride the neuron! In Vodou, when a spirit, or loa, possesses a devotee, they “mount the horse.” You take that ride to understand what it’s about. If you just watch, you don’t get that. It’s like the observer effect in physics, when the act of looking affects the results. You’re a participant, and if you don’t develop a strong belief system or convictions, you will never internalize.
AM I’ve always appreciated your thoughts on self-empowerment, believing in yourself when few others seem to. Your life and career emulate this, and so you’re always ahead of the curve.
MG Do you know Connie Hawkins, the basketball player who just passed away?
AM No.
MG But you do know Michael Jordan and Julius Erving. Well, they came from Hawkins, since he revolutionized the game. Now that he’s dead, the media is talking about him. We were actually classmates in high school, but not pals really. He was a playground legend here in Brooklyn. All-American in high school, got a scholarship to Iowa in 1960, but he was alleged to be associating with a gambler, a corrupt kind of guy, who got players to shave points. He lost his scholarship and was later banned from the NBA. It was a mess. So he played for the Harlem Globetrotters for years. He was later cleared of everything and hired by the Phoenix Suns. This guy didn’t get a certain kind of recognition, and a similar thing has happened to me perhaps, though I didn’t get banned for corruption.
AM Banned from avant-garde jazz?
MG Well, it was who and what I was associated with. I was told I would be blackballed for being revolutionary and too involved with the Civil Rights Movement. And because I started SRP (Self-Reliance Program) Records with Don Pullen, I was told the system was going to come down on me. But I really don’t know what’s true. I heard all kinds of stories. A white record producer called me up in the ’70s, saying, “If you were a white guy, you’d be a superstar.” People connected me with Amiri Baraka, and I was in a book, Black Nationalism and the Revolution in Music, by Frank Kofsky, who at the time was a known communist. He said free jazz is socialist music. I was trying to organize musicians together, and people said, “Don’t go up against the system.” But I wasn’t. We just couldn’t keep waiting for the system to come to us. Some people in the media said we played “hate” music, anti-white music, which is amazing because the media never came to us, the musicians, to ask what we were doing. We weren’t even thinking about that. It was the writers who made an issue of it—black writers! They labeled us, but we only wanted to play.
Do you know about H. Rap Brown?
AM I don’t.
MG He’s in a federal prison right now because he wound up killing a police officer in 2000, though some say it was a setup. But in the ’60s he was one of the leaders of SNCC and the one who instigated the Baltimore Riots, which we called the Baltimore Rebellion. So he was on the run, and a lot of people at the time were sympathizing with him and Stokely Carmichael, all those guys who were talking hard, saying peaceful marches aren’t going to do it. A lot of artists were asked to play for these benefits. So they had this rally for Rap Brown at a brownstone uptown. Everybody came. I was surprised to see Papa Joe Jones, talking, Balabba yabba zow, huh! What in the world was he talking about? It turned out to be Buddy Rich. I was just so surprised that Papa Joe would be into any social movements. We started talking, and he said, “Young man, we was young once and wanted to play that way-out stuff, too.” I thought, Damn, Papa knows who I am! I was just in my twenties. The older guys were checking us out. Max Roach made extremely positive remarks: “You’re doing something different!” I was playing once and could see Elvin Jones smiling, eyes all open, bobbing his head. I was showing them I was a liberated drummer. They considered me bold, saying I was soloing throughout the piece.
Some guys couldn’t deal: “Play time, man.” They’d get uptight because they weren’t generating enough information to keep up! I was just flying over the terrain. “Play simple, and stop sometimes.” But I didn’t come out for no sleepy set or cocktail hour. I was ready to go.
AM It’s about the energy.
MG And music is, of course, just one form.
AM There’s also martial arts. I remember you doing a demonstration of analog strikes versus digital strikes, relating each to vibration and motion.
MG I used to do some very hard sparring, which might have contributed to throwing my hip out. Years of doing wicked kicks at all kinds of angles. I stayed in it too long and it twisted me out a bit, but it was an experience. Now I’ve got to do research to regenerate my own self back again.
Aakash Mittal There’s no going back once they cut an organ out.
MG Once they do that, there ain’t no regeneration.
AM: Even an easy surgery is a risk, so why put your body through that if you don’t have to?
MGAndy Warhol and Tony Williams both had gallbladder surgery and suffered massive heart attacks. There’s a linkage between those two organs, man. This ain’t alternative medicine; it’s straight out of cardiopathy. There’s a small blood vessel connecting the gallbladder to the heart. I told my friend to make sure they monitor it.
AM: So you were suggesting he ask for a cardiologist?
MG: Doctors get uptight when you tell them what to do, but you have to bring things to their attention in a very peaceful, diplomatic way.
AM: Every time I come here I learn about a new connection between the heart and the rest of the world.
MG In traditional Chinese medicine they’ve been talking about this for ages. There’s the meridian clock. Each of us has two hours of maximum energy flow for the heart, between 11 AM and 1 PM. The gallbladder is just the opposite, between 11 PM and 1 AM. The ancient Chinese saw something going on, probably just from observation. They said the kidneys control the bones. How is that possible?
AM I don’t know.
MG Well, there’s a hormone in the kidney—erythropoietin. The blood goes through the kidneys, and they monitor it, excreting out what they don’t want but returning electrolytes and stuff back into the flow. But check this out: this ain’t no machine. It’s a human organ that can figure out the number of red blood cells you have! And when they’re too low it releases this hormone, which triggers the marrow to produce more. The ancients knew about this relationship, just not about erythropoietin. Now we learn its molecular structure and synthesize it, then put it in a pill or injection. But the bottom line is that you might not always have the scientific language, but the relationships are there. So you can’t sleep on this old stuff, man! You’ve got to go back centuries and ask what these ancients were talking about. They were so tuned in. They talked about their deities, and today we have church as big business. Turn on that TV and see them preachers dressed up. They’re entertainers, and people are dousing them with bucks! People are into their talk, feeling them high spirits, but in the old days they really felt forces inside. They were very open and had none of our machines. They paid attention to their own biology and let nature speak. When we get stuck, we should go back and ask what the heck they were talking about.
AM It’s easy to forget that people were able to exist for thousands of years without the machines we use today. So your study of the ancients deals with energy systems?
MG Their whole thought process, man!
AM Having known you for the last few years, one thing that really strikes me is that some people only know you as an herbalist, while others only know you as a martial artist or acupuncturist. They might not even know you play drums. Are you leading multiple lives?
MG People can be polymaths, knowing about this and that, but they might not be able to integrate all that. When I needed a title for my recent show at the Artist’s Institute at Hunter College, “Beyond Polymath” popped into my head—which, to me, means trying to see all this stuff as one happening, like the ToE (Theory of Everything) in physics. I’m dealing with the same things, though not, for example, light or gravity but with the sensory organs that detect them. I deal with the body, man! Not so much on the atomic or cosmological level but the anatomical level. With microscopes you can look all you want, but can you feel it?
AM Meaning inside your body?
MG Meaning how you react. We have excellent detectors that can observe particles colliding. With our machines we can observe. But what about Vodou in Haiti or further back than that, the Dahomey and Yoruba cultures? With possession you can see some incredible things—people crawling along then suddenly jumping up, doing unbelievable movements and chanting. All bubbled up through this apparatus of vocalization and drumming.
AM I was just in Haiti this past summer, hanging out with a Vodou drummer who showed me some rhythms. From a distance the rhythms seemed simple. I thought, I’m a musician and can learn this. But when it was my turn to play them I was blown away by the complexity of the time feel. Once I was able to play the rhythm, I was really struck by the trance-like effect and its deep symbolism. The drums themselves could only be made from the wood of a tree felled on a full moon. He explained that this wasn’t just music but something more. He was trying to vibrate on another level.
MG That’s it! It comes down to vibration, which is motion. As human beings, if there’s no motion, we’re dead! (laughter) You can call it oscillations or whatever.
AM I want to say intuition, but that word carries a lot of baggage. I wonder if it’s related to our gut neurons.
MGAnd this thing about machines replacing human biology is too far out. If you want to build a smarter machine, then you’ve got to feel the neuron. You’ve got to ride the neuron! In Vodou, when a spirit, or loa, possesses a devotee, they “mount the horse.” You take that ride to understand what it’s about. If you just watch, you don’t get that. It’s like the observer effect in physics, when the act of looking affects the results. You’re a participant, and if you don’t develop a strong belief system or convictions, you will never internalize.
AM I’ve always appreciated your thoughts on self-empowerment, believing in yourself when few others seem to. Your life and career emulate this, and so you’re always ahead of the curve.
MG Do you know Connie Hawkins, the basketball player who just passed away?
AM No.
MG But you do know Michael Jordan and Julius Erving. Well, they came from Hawkins, since he revolutionized the game. Now that he’s dead, the media is talking about him. We were actually classmates in high school, but not pals really. He was a playground legend here in Brooklyn. All-American in high school, got a scholarship to Iowa in 1960, but he was alleged to be associating with a gambler, a corrupt kind of guy, who got players to shave points. He lost his scholarship and was later banned from the NBA. It was a mess. So he played for the Harlem Globetrotters for years. He was later cleared of everything and hired by the Phoenix Suns. This guy didn’t get a certain kind of recognition, and a similar thing has happened to me perhaps, though I didn’t get banned for corruption.
AM Banned from avant-garde jazz?
MG Well, it was who and what I was associated with. I was told I would be blackballed for being revolutionary and too involved with the Civil Rights Movement. And because I started SRP (Self-Reliance Program) Records with Don Pullen, I was told the system was going to come down on me. But I really don’t know what’s true. I heard all kinds of stories. A white record producer called me up in the ’70s, saying, “If you were a white guy, you’d be a superstar.” People connected me with Amiri Baraka, and I was in a book, Black Nationalism and the Revolution in Music, by Frank Kofsky, who at the time was a known communist. He said free jazz is socialist music. I was trying to organize musicians together, and people said, “Don’t go up against the system.” But I wasn’t. We just couldn’t keep waiting for the system to come to us. Some people in the media said we played “hate” music, anti-white music, which is amazing because the media never came to us, the musicians, to ask what we were doing. We weren’t even thinking about that. It was the writers who made an issue of it—black writers! They labeled us, but we only wanted to play.
Do you know about H. Rap Brown?
AM I don’t.
MG He’s in a federal prison right now because he wound up killing a police officer in 2000, though some say it was a setup. But in the ’60s he was one of the leaders of SNCC and the one who instigated the Baltimore Riots, which we called the Baltimore Rebellion. So he was on the run, and a lot of people at the time were sympathizing with him and Stokely Carmichael, all those guys who were talking hard, saying peaceful marches aren’t going to do it. A lot of artists were asked to play for these benefits. So they had this rally for Rap Brown at a brownstone uptown. Everybody came. I was surprised to see Papa Joe Jones, talking, Balabba yabba zow, huh! What in the world was he talking about? It turned out to be Buddy Rich. I was just so surprised that Papa Joe would be into any social movements. We started talking, and he said, “Young man, we was young once and wanted to play that way-out stuff, too.” I thought, Damn, Papa knows who I am! I was just in my twenties. The older guys were checking us out. Max Roach made extremely positive remarks: “You’re doing something different!” I was playing once and could see Elvin Jones smiling, eyes all open, bobbing his head. I was showing them I was a liberated drummer. They considered me bold, saying I was soloing throughout the piece.
Some guys couldn’t deal: “Play time, man.” They’d get uptight because they weren’t generating enough information to keep up! I was just flying over the terrain. “Play simple, and stop sometimes.” But I didn’t come out for no sleepy set or cocktail hour. I was ready to go.
AM It’s about the energy.
MG And music is, of course, just one form.
AM There’s also martial arts. I remember you doing a demonstration of analog strikes versus digital strikes, relating each to vibration and motion.
MG I used to do some very hard sparring, which might have contributed to throwing my hip out. Years of doing wicked kicks at all kinds of angles. I stayed in it too long and it twisted me out a bit, but it was an experience. Now I’ve got to do research to regenerate my own self back again.
Milford Graves in Jamaica, Queens, 2017.
Photo by Andrew Bourne.
AM And you
do this by sonifying the energy coming out of the body. Is that
correct? I saw you do this with one of the people that meet here on
Sundays. I think you were recording the electrical signal around the
damaged hip and putting it through the software you coded to turn the
signal into a melody.
MG It’s known that you can stimulate tissue regeneration through electrical stimulation, but there are other ways too. Did I only use electrodes or did I put acupuncture needles in him too?
AM It was the needles.
MGYeah, I go deep down to where the joint is and apply specific frequencies relative to the body. I measure your electrical activity and transform that into a frequency, then convert it into a melody, as it has some sort of harmonics. That’s where the musicianship comes in. People ask if I use spiritual geometry to do this, and I do make use of the golden ratio—that spiral shape in nature, in snail shells and pineapples skin, etcetra. But this is often isolated, dealt with as a constant. The heart, for example, goes through a spiraling motion, and there’s coiling activity in the motion of the intestines and circulatory system. It’s a dynamic design.
AMAt your performances you sometimes give a primer on your work, mentioning the stereotypical heartbeat sound—ga-gunk ga-gunk. What you’re most interested in are the vibrations between beats that can’t be heard without amplification.
MGYou enter a house through the front door and exit out the back, but what did you do inside? Most people just observe the valves opening and closing, but there are all these structures that make that happen, rotating all around, and never with the exact same motion. “Oh that’s too chaotic, too random,” some say. But if you walk down the street on a predetermined path, you’re in trouble. “It’s too chaotic the way you’re walking, man.” Sure it is, because I’m avoiding vehicles and people I may not want to run into! Your organs understand this variability and shift to, say, deliver more oxygen here or there. That’s feedback. The circulatory system is bouncing, man.
AM It sounds like you are dealing with biological feedback loops and improvisation rather than a rigid system. Do you feel people label things they don’t understand as chaotic or random?
MG Laypeople don’t bother, but intellectuals and people who want control do. These controllers are very insecure because they feel they’re in trouble, or they just don’t know how to get liberated. When I first got to Bennington in ’73, a lot of the students claimed they couldn’t improvise, but it was a requisite course in the program. Improv scared the hell out of them. I would ask about their upbringing, and they might tell me they started violin and piano at age four with instructors. They’d never picked up an instrument without worrying about what’s right or wrong, never got acquainted to see what it could produce. The most sophisticated improvised music in the world was done by an older generation of African Americans. They didn’t have no schooling; they came up raw and rough, figuring out music on their own. Their disadvantage became a positive.
But when I later did workshops with the African American community here, I had a problem. The discipline wasn’t yet there. I had forty drummers the first class, then next week only four. “This is some heavy-duty stuff you’re talking, man.” But I didn’t reduce it. I’d ask about the arithmetic of their rhythms, slow them down and make them count. It was the opposite with the white kids at Bennington. You’ve got to know both the structured and the so-called unstructured.
AM What drove you to exist in both worlds?
MG I was eighteen and playing timbales in Latin jazz bands. Some of those players would talk about an A at 440 Hz. I didn’t know what they were talking about, but if you played a tune, I could remember that sucker. I was all memory, and I’m glad I came up that way. But not knowing bugged me, especially when we rehearsed with this bass player, and after he left they said he had been all out of tune. I thought he was great and couldn’t understand what they meant, so I went to the library to read about who started all this stuff about the right and wrong notes. But, oh, it was just a human being who devised this convention, without any objective backing! It ain’t absolute. If it were, all the music of Asia and Africa would be wrong! No way, man. How could those notes between the piano keys be wrong! This lead me to study acoustics and collect books like On the Sensations of Tone as a Physiological Basis for the Theory of Music by Hermann von Helmholtz. I was on after that, baby!
I will call you out. If you’re playing a tempered scale, I’ll ask: What’s the twelfth root of two? How was that scale developed? Are you beholden to something you don’t even know the history of? Maybe you are the one out of tune! And you do so because you want to build a keyboard? Fitting twelve notes into an octave, instead of thirty-two, is an industrial compromise! It has nothing to do with feeling in the body.
AM I remember being in Calcutta, studying music. I was working on raga Marwa, and the flat second is actually tuned much higher than where it would be on the piano. Instead of lining up with a tuner, you need to get a certain resonance between the major and minor second. I was also working on Malkauns, which has this sort of vibrato motion between the fourth and the flat third. At first it was hard for me to understand that it was about the constant change of the sound in that back and forth motion. It helped me understand that what matters is what you can do within the spectrum of sound we experience. It’s not a fixed tuning system, which connects to what you’ve said about how older drummers talk about music in the heart. You take this well beyond the metaphor.
MG It’s a total approach, down to your diet. In 1961 I was a street-corner bebopper, a jitterbug drinking pluck—the cheapest wine. We had a doo-wop group and partied all night, then ate at the worst Chinese restaurant and Fish’n’Chip in the so-called ghetto. The fried oil grease had been in there for months. Those free radicals were alive in us. A bad diet. I had friends die of cirrhosis, and I got an ulcer. I looked like I was walking sideways when walking toward you, ribs all showing. The local doctor said, “If you want to live, you got to stop drinking.” I had a power deep inside though, a determination. I became a vegetarian and recalled my grandfather talking about herbs. Soon my friends noticed a remarkable improvement in my health and started asking what herbs they could use to correct their problems, so I became an herbalist, again going to the library to research the subject.
AM So people have been coming to you for health advice since you were first on the scene?
MG Oh yeah. I’ve talked to young people in the streets and at Bennington, who were dealing with various kinds of drugs. “Bro, that stuff you take? I’ve done it. And I almost took myself out of the equation!” Kids can feel sincerity. My classroom was a living room. It was hip. We had lessons, yes, but then we’d lock the doors and do martial arts. I’d throw them all over the room, and they loved it. I helped those kids, and they helped me. I got to see an element of society that I didn’t pass through. It gave me a great feeling of balance. Kids up there had different problems, emotional ones. In some African American communities the gangs kill each other, but the whites are shooting at schools and theaters. What motivates that, man? Do they see life in a real way or as something artificial, make-believe? Some might be given too much, with nothing to chase after, and the walls start to crash down. I see this on the planet right now. The Trump situation isn’t really about Trump anymore. It’s about the people that voted for him. We’ve got to help each other out. It ain’t about the demise of white people. What if African Americans went into those so-called hard-racist areas and said, “We understand your situation. We’ve been kicked in the ass, made to feel we would lose everything we ever gained.” We can all rise to the occasion and come out of the negative hole. Take the middle path. On the Buddha’s path, you travel! You’ve got to feel what others feel regardless of pigmentation—that’s compassion. We all hurt. The Civil Rights era was great because many whites had no idea. They saw how African Americans were treated on news television, and it pissed them off.
AM Did you ever feel your creativity was a political statement, or was it just coexisting at the same time as the Civil Rights Movement?
MG Like I said before, I was just playing at first. In the ’60s a political awareness came. The Vietnam War was on. Women’s rights. Black rights. It was a big time for this country. You couldn’t imagine it today. I delved into American history from slavery on and, being a musician, got interested in how the drum was banned by white slave owners, how that music had to be underground, then about the so-called “darkies” in New Orleans, about being put in conservatories to learn to play music “correctly.” There’s more to slavery than labor; it’s cultural genocide. Everything you did was invalid.
Nasty stuff took place, but what positive came out of it? To be stripped of your character and mental capacity, to be regarded as just bodies moving around? My parents couldn’t help me with schoolwork, like I can with my grandchildren today. I had to work my butt off to try to figure out every little thing. You can get some brilliant minds out of that. After studying Zen Buddhism, I thought maybe the true practitioners were African Americans because they were stripped to a state of nothingness. You come out hungry! African Americans should be at the forefront in teaching people, all people, about what it is to be put down and how to pull yourself out. The way I play my instrument is my dedication. It’s my way of saying, “I don’t like the way the drum was treated.”
AM During one of your Sunday hangs you were talking about the need to bring the drum back to a central role in music. The drum used to be regarded as the most important instrument, but in recent history, it has become diminished. And now at concerts you intentionally put the drums at the front of the band.
MG I don’t allow myself to be a backdrop. To be taken to the back is a demotion. Do you understand what the drum was? Ancient Text Messages of the Yoruba Batá Drum: Cracking the Code by Amanda Villepastour—that’s a good and recent book. The pressure effect they use on that drum, which goes beyond the Batá actually, leads to something else. People now talk about membranes instead of superstrings in quantum mechanics. “But that’s not a drum, Milford.” Come on now, it’s a circle vibrating isn’t it? Are we afraid to say that the closest thing to this scientific idea might be West African drumming systems?
Relatedly, when I play, I do more than vertical strokes. I’m not just bah-bop bah-bop. My thing is moving around, touching the skins, knowing about momentum and position at the same time.
AM In one of our lessons you mentioned that exploring all the sounds my voice can make and bringing them to my saxophone playing would develop my “feel” in the music. And I’ve heard you do a lot of vocalizing and singing while playing drums in your performances or to demonstrate a point in your talks. In John Zorn’s book Arcana V you wrote an essay called “Music Extensions of Infinite Dimensions.” In it, you mention something about how when we think of a sound our vocal cords are subvocalizing.
MG I work with phonetics, and I also do vocal stuff in the work. The pronunciation of different languages activates different parts of the whole vocal system. Phonetics is physiological. If I do a pharyngeal gag tone, anatomically it’s like vomiting, which stimulates the medulla, which controls the parasympathetic nervous system—the Yin system.
Then there’s subvocalization, which even NASA is researching. By putting these very sensitive receptors around the vocal folds they found that the larynx pre-vibrates with just a thought. When you think or hear something, you also silently speak it, imitating it. If that wasn’t the case, you’d never learn to speak in the first place. I say “Hello!” You think, Hello! with just a little delay, also subvocalizing it in your throat. How interesting. So when people hear you play the horn, they are unconsciously singing along. You don’t want to put people into a zone of discomfort, so you’ve got to know not to hold a note too long because people will get exhausted. You affect them, man.
The Yoruba turn speech to song. They can communicate in musical form, but without knowing their language I can use those same inflections. I put twists in there, like the blues: Oh my gurl, mmmmm, she took the world awayeeee from me, mmmmm hmm. Those minor tones vibrate the sinus, hit the lachrymal area, which stimulates the tear ducts. Why do minor scales have that melancholic aspect? How do they make you feel a certain way? They stimulate those ducts, then the sadness starts coming. I don’t know how the bluesmen knew this, but I figured that sucker out. When I want to bring things down, even my blood pressure, I just sing.
But back to the gag sound: Three types of people do it. Young children, because they are so relaxed. Junkies, who are also relaxed. And Batá singers, especially the Cubans and Nigerians. But you can do this on a drum. Muffle it, and go bleh. I hit that, and I can relax you, manipulate your yin and yang, keep you in balance, because remember, you sing everything you hear. Some musicians scream on their instrument, but they’re wiping people out. What’s your purpose? To show how loud and long you can scream? Are you in pain? Are you angry, man? No, we got to feed people vibrations.
Another thing about the power of relaxation: in martial arts, you learn to relax when you get pinned to the floor. Your routine choreographed moves will not save you. You have to relax. I would have one piece of advice for a fighter like Conor McGregor: You can train physically all you want, Conor, but you’re in such a hyper state. You burn up. Against Floyd Mayweather, you came in, making that money, putting on a show. But you exhausted yourself. I’d take old Connor through some relaxed states, man. Cool him out.
When I would spar, I’d sing on people! Put them to sleep. Just like on the trap set, one hand goes this way, the other that way. They never knew what was coming. I was wicked, man. I was weird. That was my MO. They said, “You’re unorthodox, unpredictable.” That’s the name of the game. I was having fun. I wasn’t no pugilist. I was an artist. It made me learn how to make quick decisions, how to not panic.
When I come to my instrument, I am relaxed and can pull stuff off. When I was doing tai chi, I would bring that fluidity in. It’s not just about practice; there are a lot of other experiences to have. In acupuncture, I can hit some dangerous points—bam! That’s drumming.
MG It’s known that you can stimulate tissue regeneration through electrical stimulation, but there are other ways too. Did I only use electrodes or did I put acupuncture needles in him too?
AM It was the needles.
MGYeah, I go deep down to where the joint is and apply specific frequencies relative to the body. I measure your electrical activity and transform that into a frequency, then convert it into a melody, as it has some sort of harmonics. That’s where the musicianship comes in. People ask if I use spiritual geometry to do this, and I do make use of the golden ratio—that spiral shape in nature, in snail shells and pineapples skin, etcetra. But this is often isolated, dealt with as a constant. The heart, for example, goes through a spiraling motion, and there’s coiling activity in the motion of the intestines and circulatory system. It’s a dynamic design.
AMAt your performances you sometimes give a primer on your work, mentioning the stereotypical heartbeat sound—ga-gunk ga-gunk. What you’re most interested in are the vibrations between beats that can’t be heard without amplification.
MGYou enter a house through the front door and exit out the back, but what did you do inside? Most people just observe the valves opening and closing, but there are all these structures that make that happen, rotating all around, and never with the exact same motion. “Oh that’s too chaotic, too random,” some say. But if you walk down the street on a predetermined path, you’re in trouble. “It’s too chaotic the way you’re walking, man.” Sure it is, because I’m avoiding vehicles and people I may not want to run into! Your organs understand this variability and shift to, say, deliver more oxygen here or there. That’s feedback. The circulatory system is bouncing, man.
AM It sounds like you are dealing with biological feedback loops and improvisation rather than a rigid system. Do you feel people label things they don’t understand as chaotic or random?
MG Laypeople don’t bother, but intellectuals and people who want control do. These controllers are very insecure because they feel they’re in trouble, or they just don’t know how to get liberated. When I first got to Bennington in ’73, a lot of the students claimed they couldn’t improvise, but it was a requisite course in the program. Improv scared the hell out of them. I would ask about their upbringing, and they might tell me they started violin and piano at age four with instructors. They’d never picked up an instrument without worrying about what’s right or wrong, never got acquainted to see what it could produce. The most sophisticated improvised music in the world was done by an older generation of African Americans. They didn’t have no schooling; they came up raw and rough, figuring out music on their own. Their disadvantage became a positive.
But when I later did workshops with the African American community here, I had a problem. The discipline wasn’t yet there. I had forty drummers the first class, then next week only four. “This is some heavy-duty stuff you’re talking, man.” But I didn’t reduce it. I’d ask about the arithmetic of their rhythms, slow them down and make them count. It was the opposite with the white kids at Bennington. You’ve got to know both the structured and the so-called unstructured.
AM What drove you to exist in both worlds?
MG I was eighteen and playing timbales in Latin jazz bands. Some of those players would talk about an A at 440 Hz. I didn’t know what they were talking about, but if you played a tune, I could remember that sucker. I was all memory, and I’m glad I came up that way. But not knowing bugged me, especially when we rehearsed with this bass player, and after he left they said he had been all out of tune. I thought he was great and couldn’t understand what they meant, so I went to the library to read about who started all this stuff about the right and wrong notes. But, oh, it was just a human being who devised this convention, without any objective backing! It ain’t absolute. If it were, all the music of Asia and Africa would be wrong! No way, man. How could those notes between the piano keys be wrong! This lead me to study acoustics and collect books like On the Sensations of Tone as a Physiological Basis for the Theory of Music by Hermann von Helmholtz. I was on after that, baby!
I will call you out. If you’re playing a tempered scale, I’ll ask: What’s the twelfth root of two? How was that scale developed? Are you beholden to something you don’t even know the history of? Maybe you are the one out of tune! And you do so because you want to build a keyboard? Fitting twelve notes into an octave, instead of thirty-two, is an industrial compromise! It has nothing to do with feeling in the body.
AM I remember being in Calcutta, studying music. I was working on raga Marwa, and the flat second is actually tuned much higher than where it would be on the piano. Instead of lining up with a tuner, you need to get a certain resonance between the major and minor second. I was also working on Malkauns, which has this sort of vibrato motion between the fourth and the flat third. At first it was hard for me to understand that it was about the constant change of the sound in that back and forth motion. It helped me understand that what matters is what you can do within the spectrum of sound we experience. It’s not a fixed tuning system, which connects to what you’ve said about how older drummers talk about music in the heart. You take this well beyond the metaphor.
MG It’s a total approach, down to your diet. In 1961 I was a street-corner bebopper, a jitterbug drinking pluck—the cheapest wine. We had a doo-wop group and partied all night, then ate at the worst Chinese restaurant and Fish’n’Chip in the so-called ghetto. The fried oil grease had been in there for months. Those free radicals were alive in us. A bad diet. I had friends die of cirrhosis, and I got an ulcer. I looked like I was walking sideways when walking toward you, ribs all showing. The local doctor said, “If you want to live, you got to stop drinking.” I had a power deep inside though, a determination. I became a vegetarian and recalled my grandfather talking about herbs. Soon my friends noticed a remarkable improvement in my health and started asking what herbs they could use to correct their problems, so I became an herbalist, again going to the library to research the subject.
AM So people have been coming to you for health advice since you were first on the scene?
MG Oh yeah. I’ve talked to young people in the streets and at Bennington, who were dealing with various kinds of drugs. “Bro, that stuff you take? I’ve done it. And I almost took myself out of the equation!” Kids can feel sincerity. My classroom was a living room. It was hip. We had lessons, yes, but then we’d lock the doors and do martial arts. I’d throw them all over the room, and they loved it. I helped those kids, and they helped me. I got to see an element of society that I didn’t pass through. It gave me a great feeling of balance. Kids up there had different problems, emotional ones. In some African American communities the gangs kill each other, but the whites are shooting at schools and theaters. What motivates that, man? Do they see life in a real way or as something artificial, make-believe? Some might be given too much, with nothing to chase after, and the walls start to crash down. I see this on the planet right now. The Trump situation isn’t really about Trump anymore. It’s about the people that voted for him. We’ve got to help each other out. It ain’t about the demise of white people. What if African Americans went into those so-called hard-racist areas and said, “We understand your situation. We’ve been kicked in the ass, made to feel we would lose everything we ever gained.” We can all rise to the occasion and come out of the negative hole. Take the middle path. On the Buddha’s path, you travel! You’ve got to feel what others feel regardless of pigmentation—that’s compassion. We all hurt. The Civil Rights era was great because many whites had no idea. They saw how African Americans were treated on news television, and it pissed them off.
AM Did you ever feel your creativity was a political statement, or was it just coexisting at the same time as the Civil Rights Movement?
MG Like I said before, I was just playing at first. In the ’60s a political awareness came. The Vietnam War was on. Women’s rights. Black rights. It was a big time for this country. You couldn’t imagine it today. I delved into American history from slavery on and, being a musician, got interested in how the drum was banned by white slave owners, how that music had to be underground, then about the so-called “darkies” in New Orleans, about being put in conservatories to learn to play music “correctly.” There’s more to slavery than labor; it’s cultural genocide. Everything you did was invalid.
Nasty stuff took place, but what positive came out of it? To be stripped of your character and mental capacity, to be regarded as just bodies moving around? My parents couldn’t help me with schoolwork, like I can with my grandchildren today. I had to work my butt off to try to figure out every little thing. You can get some brilliant minds out of that. After studying Zen Buddhism, I thought maybe the true practitioners were African Americans because they were stripped to a state of nothingness. You come out hungry! African Americans should be at the forefront in teaching people, all people, about what it is to be put down and how to pull yourself out. The way I play my instrument is my dedication. It’s my way of saying, “I don’t like the way the drum was treated.”
AM During one of your Sunday hangs you were talking about the need to bring the drum back to a central role in music. The drum used to be regarded as the most important instrument, but in recent history, it has become diminished. And now at concerts you intentionally put the drums at the front of the band.
MG I don’t allow myself to be a backdrop. To be taken to the back is a demotion. Do you understand what the drum was? Ancient Text Messages of the Yoruba Batá Drum: Cracking the Code by Amanda Villepastour—that’s a good and recent book. The pressure effect they use on that drum, which goes beyond the Batá actually, leads to something else. People now talk about membranes instead of superstrings in quantum mechanics. “But that’s not a drum, Milford.” Come on now, it’s a circle vibrating isn’t it? Are we afraid to say that the closest thing to this scientific idea might be West African drumming systems?
Relatedly, when I play, I do more than vertical strokes. I’m not just bah-bop bah-bop. My thing is moving around, touching the skins, knowing about momentum and position at the same time.
AM In one of our lessons you mentioned that exploring all the sounds my voice can make and bringing them to my saxophone playing would develop my “feel” in the music. And I’ve heard you do a lot of vocalizing and singing while playing drums in your performances or to demonstrate a point in your talks. In John Zorn’s book Arcana V you wrote an essay called “Music Extensions of Infinite Dimensions.” In it, you mention something about how when we think of a sound our vocal cords are subvocalizing.
MG I work with phonetics, and I also do vocal stuff in the work. The pronunciation of different languages activates different parts of the whole vocal system. Phonetics is physiological. If I do a pharyngeal gag tone, anatomically it’s like vomiting, which stimulates the medulla, which controls the parasympathetic nervous system—the Yin system.
Then there’s subvocalization, which even NASA is researching. By putting these very sensitive receptors around the vocal folds they found that the larynx pre-vibrates with just a thought. When you think or hear something, you also silently speak it, imitating it. If that wasn’t the case, you’d never learn to speak in the first place. I say “Hello!” You think, Hello! with just a little delay, also subvocalizing it in your throat. How interesting. So when people hear you play the horn, they are unconsciously singing along. You don’t want to put people into a zone of discomfort, so you’ve got to know not to hold a note too long because people will get exhausted. You affect them, man.
The Yoruba turn speech to song. They can communicate in musical form, but without knowing their language I can use those same inflections. I put twists in there, like the blues: Oh my gurl, mmmmm, she took the world awayeeee from me, mmmmm hmm. Those minor tones vibrate the sinus, hit the lachrymal area, which stimulates the tear ducts. Why do minor scales have that melancholic aspect? How do they make you feel a certain way? They stimulate those ducts, then the sadness starts coming. I don’t know how the bluesmen knew this, but I figured that sucker out. When I want to bring things down, even my blood pressure, I just sing.
But back to the gag sound: Three types of people do it. Young children, because they are so relaxed. Junkies, who are also relaxed. And Batá singers, especially the Cubans and Nigerians. But you can do this on a drum. Muffle it, and go bleh. I hit that, and I can relax you, manipulate your yin and yang, keep you in balance, because remember, you sing everything you hear. Some musicians scream on their instrument, but they’re wiping people out. What’s your purpose? To show how loud and long you can scream? Are you in pain? Are you angry, man? No, we got to feed people vibrations.
Another thing about the power of relaxation: in martial arts, you learn to relax when you get pinned to the floor. Your routine choreographed moves will not save you. You have to relax. I would have one piece of advice for a fighter like Conor McGregor: You can train physically all you want, Conor, but you’re in such a hyper state. You burn up. Against Floyd Mayweather, you came in, making that money, putting on a show. But you exhausted yourself. I’d take old Connor through some relaxed states, man. Cool him out.
When I would spar, I’d sing on people! Put them to sleep. Just like on the trap set, one hand goes this way, the other that way. They never knew what was coming. I was wicked, man. I was weird. That was my MO. They said, “You’re unorthodox, unpredictable.” That’s the name of the game. I was having fun. I wasn’t no pugilist. I was an artist. It made me learn how to make quick decisions, how to not panic.
When I come to my instrument, I am relaxed and can pull stuff off. When I was doing tai chi, I would bring that fluidity in. It’s not just about practice; there are a lot of other experiences to have. In acupuncture, I can hit some dangerous points—bam! That’s drumming.
Aakash Mittal is a performing artist and composer who employs
improvisation, noise, and biological arrhythmia. His primary ensemble,
the Aakash Mittal Quartet, has released four recordings and tours
internationally.
New Documentary Examines Milford Graves’ Music and Philosophy
by Dave CantorJanuary 3, 2018
The new film Milford Graves Full Mantis is as much a visual poem as it is a documentary.
The film—which examines not just the career, but also the teachings of drummer/percussionist Milford Graves—will have its world premiere at this year’s International Film Festival in Rotterdam, The Netherlands, which runs from Jan. 24 to Feb. 4. The movie will be screened as part of “Pan-African Cinema Today,” a program that includes short- and feature-length films, lectures, a virtual-reality installation and music.
Jake Meginsky, who co-directed the film with Neil Young, was living in Springfield, a quick drive to the University of Massachusetts-Amherst back in 2004. And as the Northeast plays host to a bevy of experimental improvisers, Meginsky was able to catch a Graves performance at the school.
Something about the show obviously reached Meginsky’s core.
About a year later, he drove up to Bennington College to ask the percussionist if he’d be able to take on a student. Graves, who worked at the Vermont school for 39 years, said yes, and Meginsky landed a gig up there to be closer to his mentor. The pair also worked a bit in South Jamaica, Queens, where Graves is based and first taught his brand of martial arts, Yara.
“By 2004, I was recording him telling certain stories from [his past] or what was going on with the recording he was doing,” said Meginsky, who used Graves’ home and extensive gardens in Queens as the film’s setting. “This movie … comes out of 14 years of working with Milford directly as a student. It’s a personal project.”
Full Mantis is fully focused on Graves’ voice. The drummer’s perceptions of art and living blend with impressionistic visual turns: glacial camera movements, stolen moments in the gardens and archival footage. Unlike a slew of recent music docs, though, Meginsky and Young’s film eschews talking-head specialists. Meginsky said that for him, as a viewer, when those arbiters of culture show up in a film, it’s not uncommon for him to zone out.
Graves’ career reaches back to the 1960s, when he began recording with free-jazz luminaries like Albert Ayler, Giuseppi Logan and Sonny Sharrock. The percussionist, who said he was waiting for someone to make a movie about his work, recalls garnering a bit of attention pretty early on, though.
“I was the new kid on the block, you know? Word got around: ‘You have to go see Milford Graves,’” the drummer said on New Year’s day. “People I had respect for … these guys were coming over to me and giving me high praise. They made me realize that maybe I had something.”
In a March 19, 1970, feature on drummers, DownBeat writer Jane Welch described Graves as “a serious man and a serious musician.” She wrote: “His way of life is on a high ethical plane and his playing reflects this. He is a ‘cultural nationalist’ who firmly believes that an artist can take all the necessary things from the existing environment and shape them creatively to suit his own needs.”
Graves is still at work, using the same perspective. And to the filmmaker, Full Mantis is a primary document, culled from more than a decade of knowing Graves, exploring his teachings and listening to discussions of the percussionist’s ideas and the “ways he conceptualizes the instrument and his creative process, in general.”
Meginsky called some of the material used in the film “hardcore archival” and said the movie’s name comes from Graves’ martial arts discipline.
“Milford was training his peers in his backyard in South Jamaica Queens—boxing and kung fu,” the director said, going on to detail a story of some folks being turned away from teachers in Chinatown because of their race. Graves, though, came to the conclusion that most martial arts masters study directly from nature. “So, he ordered a bunch of praying mantis eggs, hatched them in the garden and studied from the praying mantis.”
It’s that kind of intuition that spurs Graves’ discourse today. And over the course of the 90-minute film, viewers get to hear previously unreleased electronic music and see animation by Graves, as well as Super 8 footage of the drummer’s first tour of Japan and 16-mm footage of a tour in Belgium.
For more info on the film, visit its Kickstarter page. And for info on International Film Festival’s “Pan-African Cinema Today,” visit the festival website. DB
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/arts/music/milford-graves-jazz-full-mantis.html
Music
For Milford Graves, Jazz Innovation Is Only Part of the Alchemy
Calling
Milford Graves an autodidact would be basically correct, but it gets at
the wrong idea. Known as a game-changing drummer of the 1960s
avant-garde, he’s also become a kind of underground thought-leader in
martial arts, natural healing and cellular biology. That wasn’t just by
learning from what was available; he likes to build new systems,
reshaping the channels by which information comes to him.
Mr.
Graves prefers to live in territory that’s uncharted, which often means
unseen, but a small wave of recognition has started to flow his way.
Since the fall, he’s been featured in a range of major art magazines
and has exhibited his first sculpture (exploring connections between
body and rhythm) at Hunter College. Last month, he played two triumphant
sets at the Big Ears Festival in Knoxville, Tenn. And on Friday, the
documentary “Milford Graves Full Mantis” has its New York premiere at the Film Society of Lincoln Center.
The
film’s main lesson is that it’s possible for an artist to spend an
entire life working his way back from the source material: If he makes
his principles expansive enough, he might even succeed in creating a
loose society of learners around him, with or without an institution’s
help. In one scene, Mr. Graves, now 76, stands in his backyard garden in
Jamaica, Queens, speaking to the film’s director, Jake Meginsky. A
vegetable provides more nutrients if you eat it directly, he says. Then
he bends over and gobbles up a spinach leaf, chewing it down to the
stem. This moment shows where his creativity flourishes — at the square
root of super-seriousness and total innocence.
Walking
into his basement laboratory last Saturday, I found a wall lined with
bottles of herbal extracts he’s made. He’s frequently sought out as a
healer and acupuncturist by neighbors and artists across the city.
Even
to a knowledgeable jazz fan, the depth of Mr. Graves’s inquiries would
probably be a surprise. He’s spent decades directly researching the
human heart in that basement, using software he’s built to measure its
textured pulse and convert it into a melody. By feeding those sounds
back to a person, he’s found he can increase blood flow and possibly
even stimulate cell growth. This work recently led Mr. Graves to a partnership with a team of Italian biologists. Last year, they patented a device that aims to use these melodies to regenerate stem cells.
Mr.
Graves does this research in the semi-suburban Queens home where he and
his wife, Lois, have lived since 1970. (He grew up nearby, then
inherited the house from his grandmother.) Years ago, he festooned its
exterior with a creeping, GaudÃesque mosaic of stones and colored glass.
In the comfortably cluttered basement, books on biology, Kundalini yoga
and 20th-century music perch next to West African drums and Indian
tablas.
“I
guess I’ve always been my own person,” Mr. Graves said, sitting in
baggy sweatpants and a flannel jacket by a bank of six computer
monitors. “I didn’t have no teacher, and that was great, because I was
allowed to figure it out without anybody telling me to do it this way or
that way. That came later, when I said, Oh, that’s the conventional
way.”
He
grew up playing timbales in Latin jazz and mambo bands, where the
rhythmic complexity is greater and more gravity-defying than in standard
jazz drumming. Mr. Graves decided to move to the kit after hearing Elvin Jones with John Coltrane
at a club — not to imitate what he’d heard, but to transcend it, add
more range. “I said, ‘He’s cool, but I hear something else, man,’” Mr.
Graves said. “I heard what he wasn’t doing.”
On
the drum kit, he met the new challenge of incorporating foot pedals.
Playing Latin percussion, he recalled, “we’d be doing dance movements
while we were playing. So I said: ‘That’s all I’ll do. I’m going to
start dancing down below.’ I started dancing on the high-hat.”
He fell in with the improvising avant-garde around 1963, recording first with the New York Art Quartet,
a group that’s now iconic. He had begun to develop a polyrhythmic style
of free playing, shapely and articulate and unabating. Delivering most
strokes at about 60 to 80 percent force, Mr. Graves sometimes holds
multiple sticks in one hand, each tapping a different drum with a
different rhythm. He maintains a low and certain flow, even as patterns
tilt and tempos shift.
Soon
he had radically remodeled his drum kit, ditching the snare drum and
taking the bottom skins off his toms, getting a soupier resonance. He
said the snare’s stiff-toned sound fit its European military origins
better than it did his music. “The potential of how you can manipulate a
vibrating drum membrane is much greater,” Mr. Graves said. He suggested
that jazz drummers who use the snare might simply be “following orders
without questioning those orders” — his idea of a grave sin.
In
1973, he began teaching at Bennington College in Vermont, where he
stayed on as a professor until 2012, holding forth on topics well beyond
any single subject, despite having no more than a high school diploma.
But he spent most of each week back in Queens, teaching percussion and
yara, a hybrid martial art of his own creation, to interested artists
and neighborhood residents.
In
“Full Mantis,” Mr. Graves is the only speaker, which makes for both a
captivating sound poem (philosophical speech interleaved with
performances) and a risk: It positions him as a solitary figure, too far
ahead to relate to, whereas, in fact, he’s always been a convener and a
sharer. For many years, he has hosted informal Sunday get-togethers in
his basement, assembling different groups of guests, teaching and
opening up broad discussions.
“At
the house, you meet people from all over,” said Mr. Meginsky, who
served as Mr. Graves’s personal assistant for over a decade before
making “Full Mantis” out of a combination of his own recordings and Mr.
Graves’s old videos. “You’re meeting classical musicians there, you’re
meeting consecrated priests in Santeria and Ifá and voodoo, you’re
meeting doctors, you’re meeting guys who run the health food store in
South Jamaica, drummers, gardeners.”
The
pianist Jason Moran, who sought out Mr. Graves for a duet at Big Ears,
said in an interview that he’s long been impressed by the way Mr. Graves
“turns the way that knowledge functions around, into the personal, away
from the textbook.”
He added: “He follows through on all those intuitions where I think most of us sometimes don’t, really spending his time.”
Onstage
at the Bijou Theater in Knoxville, the two musicians let their
instincts multiply, Mr. Moran moving from chunky chords to rippling
repetitions of a single high note. Even when the pianist swept down to
the lowest reaches of his instrument, Mr. Graves seemed to stay
underneath him, a ballast in constant flux, offering only the guarantee
that he would listen, and change.